Now, here’s my chat with Lorne…

Lorne Michaels called me this afternoon for a tight 30-minute chat. I had wanted to talk to him about the whole Stephen Colbert firing at CBS, the possible political pressure from Trump, and how that might or might not impact Saturday Night Live and the two other late-night shows that Michaels produces for NBC. Plus, the famously elusive Michaels hasn’t done any media interviews since his blockbuster SNL50 anniversary special—and its accompanying music extravaganza and four separate tribute documentaries—owned the culture for a few weeks back in February, earning 31 Emmy nominations for the franchise. And, of course, I was curious how Lorne planned to follow all that with a new season of SNL, which is set to begin October 4.

Turns out, the fate of the new season will be determined by early next week, when Lorne makes final decisions about which castmembers will be asked back, who’s joining the show, “Weekend Update” anchors, and more. Michaels promised me a significant shake-up, with several current castmembers expected to exit. (Auditions took place last week in Studio 8H after the usual scouting trips to L.A. and Chicago; Lorne also spent some time in London this summer helping put together the new U.K. version of SNL.)

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Until then, Michaels, 80, was game to talk Colbert and the current media climate around Trump, as well as share some stories from the SNL50 celebration weekend, like how he picked Sabrina Carpenter to open the show with Paul Simon, and whose idea it was for Eddie Murphy to play Tracy Morgan on “Black Jeopardy.” I condensed and edited our conversation and present it here in three sections, starting with the news…

Matt Belloni: What was your first reaction when you saw that CBS had fired Colbert and killed the Late Show franchise?

Lorne Michaels: I was just stunned. I’m on the side of the people who do shows, but there’s two audiences now. There’s the audience that is [watching on] TikTok and YouTube, and there’s a linear audience. Both Seth [Meyers] and [Stephen] Colbert are heirs to David Letterman. You know what I mean? Conan [O’Brien] as well. They’re going to be doing that [type of show], just as I’m still doing SNL, as if everybody’s watching that night. But Jimmy [Fallon] does a lot of stuff that you can watch all day.

That’s the economic issue. Do you think that the Colbert cancellation was political?

I don’t think any of us are going to ever know that. The thing that was formative to me—and you’re too young for this—was the cancellation of The Smothers Brothers [by CBS in 1969, after the show featured anti-Vietnam War activists and comedy]. That was a huge thing. I later asked Tommy [Smothers] to do [SNL], when I was planning the first six shows, and he said no. Later we talked about it, and he said, “I was still so angry.” That was four years later. And I thought, Being a martyr is thrilling, and everyone’s cheering, and then it’s show business. It just goes on.

Have you been assured by Comcast that the Jimmy and Seth shows are safe for the foreseeable future? They’re both signed through 2028.

Yes. I think [Comcast C.E.O.] Brian Roberts—who I will be working for for the rest of my life, who I have very high admiration for—has integrity. But at the same time, everyone has [broadcast] licenses, everyone has… you know. But I really don’t believe that we affect things.

Even with this president?

Even with this president. Whatever crimes Trump is committing, he’s doing it in broad daylight. There is absolutely nothing that the people who vote for him—or me—don’t know. You know what I mean? And he is a really powerful media figure. He knows how to hold an audience. That’s a very powerful thing, and I think it was always underestimated. His politics are obviously not my politics, but denouncing [him] doesn’t work.

From your perspective, do you think that political comedy will be tougher to do now on TV because media companies like Disney and Paramount are paying to settle lawsuits and appease the Trump administration?

No. I don’t think anybody knows what Michael Che’s politics are, but they do think he’s funny.

Let’s flash back to February. It’s five minutes before air. You’ve spent years thinking about what this 50th anniversary show might be. You’ve got one of the most star-studded audiences of all time sitting there in 8H. Paul Simon and Sabrina Carpenter are about to go on. What’s going through your head?

How we’re opening. And will it work? Earlier anniversary shows, we just did the one show, but I thought a year ago that we could do that [concert the Friday night before at Radio City Music Hall]. I spoke to Paul Simon about it, and then he got a call from Sabrina Carpenter, who wanted him to do a song with her on her special. And he said, “I don’t think I want to do that. Would you take that to Radio City?” So [the opening] started back then, it was in my head. And then it migrated.

I wanted to close with [Paul] McCartney. For lots of reasons. The emotion. Once he was there, I toyed with him opening, but there was something to closing with “Golden Slumbers” that felt powerful to me. And Paul [Simon] and Sabrina were gonna do “Homeward Bound,” which worked perfectly. It resonated with the audience that was there because for a lot of them, [SNL] was a home for five to 10 years. [The pairing] let the audience know what the show is. It’s now and it’s then.

You said before the show that it would be emotional for you. And you’re a famously unemotional guy. Did you cry that night?

Yeah. I teared up a couple times. I wasn’t weeping, but a lot of other people were, oddly enough. You get a lump in your throat. Particularly on [McCartney’s] “Carry That Weight.” And with Paul [Simon], I don’t know whether you noticed it, but the original lyric [to “Homeward Bound”] is “cigarettes and magazines.” Paul changed it because [Sabrina] didn’t want to sing “cigarettes.” And I thought, “Oh, that’s the difference in this generation.”

I thought you were going to say that magazines don’t exist anymore.

No. (Laughs.) What I mean is, it was a slight change—I don’t think anyone would have noticed it—but it was an accommodation between generations. Not that he was attached to the lyric, particularly.

I think a lot of people were wondering what Eddie Murphy would do. Did he say, I’d like to try a Tracy Morgan impression on “Black Jeopardy,” or did the writers come up with that?

I think it was his idea. I wasn’t at that meeting. When I asked him, I said, “Is there anything special you want to do?” And he said, “No, whatever you want me to do, I’ll do.” He said, “I learned on the 40th [anniversary show] how much I care about the place.”

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An interesting choice to have Miley Cyrus and Brittany Howard do Prince’s “Nothing Compares 2 U” in the style of Sinead O’Connor, who famously ripped up a picture of the pope on the show. Did you think twice about that: bringing attention to one of SNL’s more controversial moments?

No. If [O’Connor] were still alive, I would have asked her to sing that song. But it was represented by Miley singing it with so much power.

Who was the most surprising person who showed up? Jack Nicholson?

No, I knew that was happening. I thought Adam [Sandler] was incredibly emotional with his song [“50 Years,” which included a tribute to five cast members who had died]. That covered another kind of emotion, for his period [of the show].

What was interesting: I didn’t get to see anybody [during the show], and not at the party either. I was down front, because I needed access to the stage. And my family was there, and I was really excited that they were there. I’d make eye contact with people all the time, and then occasionally I’d get up and go to the control room. I didn’t get to spend time with anyone.

You couldn’t enjoy your own party.

To say the least. But I enjoy enough things. I got a very sweet letter and a gift from Judge Reinhold. And I remember his show [he hosted] pretty vividly because it was the last show before the writers strike in 1988, which changed everything. He wrote me, and I thought, “Oh, he was there!” It mattered that much to him.

Did you have a plan for Taylor Swift if she wanted to do something on the show?

No. She and Travis came to Pete Davidson’s show, the first show of the season before, and I talked to her about it then. But I knew that her [Eras] tour was mammoth. And I thought, If she can come, she’ll come, and if she can’t, she can’t.

Was there anyone who surprised you by not being there? Dan Aykroyd was the big one for me.

Dan, you know—we talked. I’ve known him since he was 19, and he’s way more emotional about this stuff than you’d think. [Aykroyd has said he wanted to watch the show live on TV: “I knew if I was there, I’d be in a dressing room, I’d be working.”] And the week after [the show], I was down in the Caribbean and he came down, and we spent the day—he slept over. I think he wanted to be there, but I think he watches it every week.

Was there something crazy that happened backstage that we never saw on the show?

No, but if we could jump back to the Friday [musical show] for a moment. I’ve done a bunch of concerts, obviously, but there was something about that show… it was all just people I asked. You know, I wanted Bonnie Raitt to sing “I Can’t Make You Love Me.” And Dave Grohl went back and forth on what he wanted to do. And then he said, “I want it to be Nirvana.” And then Post Malone, in the pandemic, he did Kurt [Cobain]. And so you go, “Okay, all right.” And it just kept happening. Not one person talked about [the order of performances]. No one complained about their dressing room. It was a magical night for me because—there’s Cher, God bless her. It’s magical! Chris Martin played piano for Bonnie Raitt. I don’t think anyone noticed.

You said last year that you wanted to hold that core cast together through the 50th. Are you now going to shake things up?

Yes. Last season, when we were at the party of the first show, quarter of four in the morning, Dana [Carvey, who played Joe Biden] comes over to me and says, “I don’t think anyone knows you called me June 4th [to play Biden].” I wanted people coming back and being part of [the 50th season]. So when Kate [McKinnon] hosted, Kristen [Wiig] and Maya [Rudolph] came back for it. And that meant there couldn’t be those kind of disruptions [to the cast], or anything that was going to take the focus off [the 50th season]. And we had an election.

But now, do you feel pressure to reinvent this season?

Yeah, for sure. It’ll be announced in a week or so.

Are you sticking with James Austin Johnson as Trump?

Yes.

I won’t ask the retirement question, you’ve answered that.

Many, many times.

But are you gonna give anyone in particular on your team some added responsibilities this season?

That’s already been happening [in] the past year or so. More people are involved in the choices and in the decisions. But I’m not worried about A.I. because A.I. can’t guess what I'm gonna do between 10 and 11 [on show nights]… because I have no idea!

There’s a lot of people in that room with a lot of opinions. I make the final decision, obviously. But it’s not as if people don’t let me know how strongly they feel.

You’ve said you didn’t read the big Susan Morrison book about you, and you didn’t watch the Jason Reitman movie Saturday Night, and you didn’t appear in the documentaries celebrating the 50th anniversary. Why not?

There’s something about age—you always thought your memories were the right ones. Then you read something else in a book, and you go, “That person wasn’t even in the room. How are they talking about it?” I’m trying to hold on to the way I remember things.

See you Monday,
Matt

Correction: The Street Fighter movie that Paramount hopes will be its first Legendary Pictures release was not part of Legendary’s previous Sony Pictures deal. Reports saying Sony would distribute Street Fighter are inaccurate, so I shouldn’t have repeated them on Monday. Apologies.

Maya Tribbitt contributed research for today’s issue.

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